Chris Wilder

[Jimski]

Congratulations to Chris Wilder, who has just achieved the "full set" of promotions (5 -> 4 with Oxford, 4 -> 3 with Northampton, and 3 -> 2-> 1 with Sheffield Utd). One of my all-time favourite Oxford managers, and one who was sadly undervalued by many of our fans at the end. Who knows what Wilder might have achieved with us given the sort of backing Appleton got? (Nothing against Appleton btw - another one I look back on very fondly, obviously.

Anyway, I'm pleased for him.

[Radley Rambler]

44.7% average managerial win rate over his career is very decent indeed especially as it was just 38% at Halifax. I know some Halifax fans and they said they didn't like him when he was at the helm but realised later that he had got them into the Conference play-offs with literally buttons to use as wages.

When he left Oxford, it was right for him and right for us but he has done exceptionally well since. Perhaps he will fulful Denis Smith's birthright of being an England Manager. His record puts him in contention if he does well in the Premiership but I don't think he's right for all the media duties required.

[Werthers Original]

He’s a proper old skool tight lipped supremo and professional Yorkshireman, isn’t he? Done fantastically well since leaving us. But - Smalley on the wing ...

[Kairdiff Exile]

I'm with RR - Wilder leaving Oxford was the right thing for both parties at the time. Indeed, I'd wager that departing Grenoble Road played a significant part in sharpening Wilder's ability as a manager. At Northampton, he had to work much better with what he had rather than always signing another loanee and giving into his "tinkerman" urges. He did very well at Oxford, halted our decline and pulled us up by the bootstraps - and Wembley 2010 was unforgettable for us all. But by the end, the players had gone stale under him and he'd fallen out with the chairman so a change was in everyone's interests.

I'm very happy for him and for Sheffield United; it's a wonderful story, and he deserves to enjoy his moment (and judging by some of the videos on social media yesterday, he certainly has been!).

[ty cobb]

It would appear that despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary Wilder is still undervalued by our fans - right time to leave us what utter tosh!

We were in the play offs when he left us, we then tumbled out of them very quickly and it took us a further season before Appleton got things sorted. Given what he subsequently achieved I have little doubt that with a reasonable amount of backing he'd have got us up that season, or the one after. With less money to spend at Northampton he finished higher than Appleton's team did and was Champions - lets not forget that.

He is one of the most in demand English managers now, has achieved a minor miracle at his current and previous club and yet people are still glad he left us - the mind boggles!

[Kairdiff Exile]

people are still glad he left us - the mind boggles!

Straw man argument. Nobody has said that.

Let's also not forget that home game against Torquay where he marched out of the ground without doing any media, and allowed speculation to grow on his position and what was happening within the club. Whatever else he may have gone on to achieve since then, that was deeply unprofessional and was emblematic of a relationship that had gone sour between him and others at the club. I would have liked him to stay, but (to repeat what I said above), it was probably in everyone's interests to have a change at that point. Looking back at the threads on this board from the time, that was the consensus even if hindsight means we now think otherwise.

[ty cobb]

I thought by saying it was right for the club to have left us is essentially the same as saying you are glad he left us - if not my apologies.

At the time the owners were looking to sell (and therefore not backing him in the transfer window despite us being in the play offs) and the fans were on his back - not all but a decent number.

So he threw a strop - don't blame him, must have been a very frustrating position to be in.

I agree the consensus at the time was that it was right for him to go, but there were a few of us who argued at the time it was a daft decision and everything that happened since has shown that to be true.

You didn't need hindsight to realise that Wilder was much more preferable to Lewis followed by Waddock as managers.

This was the table when he resigned

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/lea ... uary-2014/

We were 4 points off top with a game in hand.

This was the table at the end of the season

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/lea ... -may-2014/

22 points off top. Note also the position of Northampton - had we collected the same number of points that Wilder got with the worst team in the league we would have been joint fourth that season.

As time has gone on it has shown to be one of the most stupid episodes in our history - when my son asks me who are the best managers that Oxford have said, I will respond Chris Wilder is one of them. He will say - I know him, he's that grumpy one on Match of the Day, why did he leave us. I will have to reply, through gritted teeth, that at the time, Northampton a team rooted to the bottom of the 4 divisions was looked upon as a more attractive team as us.

My boy may then say, but thats silly - the fans must have been really cross. And I will say, no actually most were happy he had gone.

And if he says but then the fans are silly as well, I would have to agree with him.

[Dr Bob]

For me, the critical issue is the one aspect of the saga that has not been mentioned yet - his contract situation. My understanding is not that Northampton was intrinsically a better option, but that they made a longer contract offer which, in his situation, I think quite a few would have plumped for. But what lies behind that is the key. I have always read this as a deterioration in the relationship between Wilder and the owner. Given the situation we were in, why was he (IIRC) offered a one year rolling contract? For sure Wilder could have handled the Torquay post-match gubbins better, but I suspect that things had already broken down by that point. What, in short, was the owner thinking about? Given that the contract issue was significant, was it therefore really about Wilder not being backed over transfers? At that time of the season? Seems unlikely.

[Kairdiff Exile]

Given the situation we were in, why was he (IIRC) offered a one year rolling contract?

The Prosecution would argue that we had stagnated after two years of mid-table finishes in Div 4, and the quality of football had been pretty dismal at times. They would add that Wilder had been backed in the loan market and made a few mis-steps.

The Defence would point to the fact that our league position improved every year under Wilder's tenure.

I think the latter argument should have won the day, but the former points can't be completely forgotten. I guess it underlines the extent to which we all had conflicting views and conflicted feelings about his departure.

Further reading:
- The thread about the press conference at the end of 2012/13 where Lenagan announced Wilder's move to a rolling one-year contract;
- The thread when Wilder left;
- A retrospective thread towards the end of the season after he'd left;
- A largely good post from Oxblogger at the time of Wilder's departure which reflects the conflicted feelings - although he blots his copybook by saying Wilder's move to Northampton was "a big risk for him, a potential career suicide, because it could cement him as a manager who needs an eternity to succeed and one that drags teams into the Conference"!

[OtmoorYellow]

44.7% average managerial win rate over his career is very decent indeed especially as it was just 38% at Halifax. I know some Halifax fans and they said they didn't like him when he was at the helm but realised later that he had got them into the Conference play-offs with literally buttons to use as wages.

When he left Oxford, it was right for him and right for us but he has done exceptionally well since. Perhaps he will fulful Denis Smith's birthright of being an England Manager. His record puts him in contention if he does well in the Premiership but I don't think he's right for all the media duties required.

CNEMWO

[OtmoorYellow]

With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, Wilder has to go down as at least in the top 5 managers of OUFC and perhaps top 3.

He was starved of cash by the owners towards the end, meaning the squad could not be developed. As Ty has said, I think with MApp's budget, Wilder would have achieved at least similar to MApp.

He's done really well getting the promotion set, and it will be interesting to see how he fares in the Premier League, where demands are infinitely greater, expectations higher, and likelihood of success simply as a result of the financial structure of that division being significantly lower. If he keeps his job and keeps the Blades in the Prem for the first season, that would be impressive indeed.

[Werthers Original]

I think he must have changed his style and developed his thinking after leaving us. I couldn't imagine him even winning Div 4 so impressively with us, and I don't think it was just about the money (were NTFC rich?). He got us out of the Conference and made us a solid Div 4 side but our overall play was not sophisticated and we didn't appear to have potential in the way that Appleton's side did.

[Kernow Yellow]

Given the situation we were in, why was he (IIRC) offered a one year rolling contract?

I'm pretty sure you don't recall correctly. If Ircc, Wilder had been on a rolling contract, but Lenagan gave him a 1-year fixed contract at the beginning of his last season with Us instead. I pointed out at the time that Lenagan was effectively giving Wilder his notice (ie effectively sacking him but without paying him off). In the circumstances, it is hardly surprising that CW applied for every job going that season (one of the main criticisms levelled at him in the Other Place). It also became clear shortly after Wilder left that Lenagan was pulling the plug on OUFC anyway. His interest was in finding a buyer, not in getting Us promoted.

The only reason it was the right time for CW to leave OUFC is that Lenagan had stopped backing him - not because Lenagan didn't trust him (as some thought at the time), but because Lenagan was looking to sell OUFC.

CW did absolutely the right thing for his career and has ended up in the Premier League. Lenagan saddled Us with an appalling stadium agreement and we are bumbling along in League 1, changing owner and manager every couple of seasons.

Shame, because up until that point IL had been a good owner for Us (and CW a good manager). Eales repeated the trick with Appleton a few years later of course (good owner, good manager, all momentum lost when owner wants rid). Let's hope these new guys don't get bored too quickly too...

[OtmoorYellow]

Given the situation we were in, why was he (IIRC) offered a one year rolling contract?

I'm pretty sure you don't recall correctly. If Ircc, Wilder had been on a rolling contract, but Lenagan gave him a 1-year fixed contract at the beginning of his last season with Us instead. I pointed out at the time that Lenagan was effectively giving Wilder his notice (ie effectively sacking him but without paying him off). In the circumstances, it is hardly surprising that CW applied for every job going that season (one of the main criticisms levelled at him in the Other Place). It also became clear shortly after Wilder left that Lenagan was pulling the plug on OUFC anyway. His interest was in finding a buyer, not in getting Us promoted.

The only reason it was the right time for CW to leave OUFC is that Lenagan had stopped backing him - not because Lenagan didn't trust him (as some thought at the time), but because Lenagan was looking to sell OUFC.

CW did absolutely the right thing for his career and has ended up in the Premier League. Lenagan saddled Us with an appalling stadium agreement and we are bumbling along in League 1, changing owner and manager every couple of seasons.

Shame, because up until that point IL had been a good owner for Us (and CW a good manager). Eales repeated the trick with Appleton a few years later of course (good owner, good manager, all momentum lost when owner wants rid). Let's hope these new guys don't get bored too quickly too...

It was Nick Merry, not Ian Lenagan that saddled us with the stadium license.

[Kernow Yellow]

It was Nick Merry, not Ian Lenagan that saddled us with the stadium license.

Well ok, Lenagan (as owner) allowed Merry (as Chairman) to saddle Us with a bad agreement. And when Eales took over, Lenagan stayed on the board precisely to sort out the stadium situation. Didn't he do well!

But that's all something of an aside from the Wilder debate...