I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Anything yellow and blue
ty cobb
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by ty cobb »

Under Firoz we were an average league two team and were never in the relagation zone. Our previous owners got us relegated, we struggled to get back up again but to be fair to IL he had established us as a mid table league 2 team when leaving. The new guys aren't even achieving that.

However, off the pitch Firoz at least managed to stem the losses and even turned a profit occasionally. IL lost millions every year and the new guys seem to be following the same path.
OUFC4eva
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by OUFC4eva »

Snake - you honestly believe this City would
roll over and permit Kassam to get even more richer?

This after the City dropped its trousers in 2000
and got royally shafted.

Not a chance surely.
Snake
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by Snake »

OUFC4eva wrote:Snake - you honestly believe this City would roll over and permit Kassam to get even more richer?

This after the City dropped its trousers in 2000 and got royally shafted.

Not a chance surely.
People need houses apparently. And OCC in particular want loads and loads of them. It’s a win-win situation. The only way of stopping that happening is to make sure there is a football club on that patch of land.
tomoufc
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by tomoufc »

Brahma Bull wrote:Can't wait for Snakey to answer Kernow's question.

Yes I understand the panic, anger and frustration. It's all understandable. I don't think OxVox should be demanding or interfering in the managerial position, partly because you have a cross section of views throughout the membership. OxVox have got involved in this type of thing before, it doesn't go down well. But if that's what the membership demand, so be it.

You do know the OxVox committee, partof, have met Ashton and Eales officially once? Some of the committee are having another meeting in the coming few weeks for information.
It doesn't go well with who? The chairman? No, it probably doesn't. But if a chairman's pissed off because a democratically-elected fans groups has publicly expressed its opinion about something, I would venture to suggest that the chairman's at fault, rather than the supporters group. That a majority of OxVox members don't agree yet may be a fair point, but that could change very quickly.

I'll quote you from YF, because I'd rather converse on here - 'I think we're further from being sent to the wall than we have been for some significant time.' I respect this opinion, but what's the evidence? How much money per year in 'soft' debt accumulation to Mr Eales do we need to survive? How much money per year in 'soft' debt accumulation to Mr Eales do we need to get promoted? How much money per year in 'soft' debt accumulation to Mr Eales do we need to survive in league one? Add that all together - does Mr Eales have that kind of money? What are Mr. Eales's plans to get the club onto an even keel?
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot
Myles Francis
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by Myles Francis »

tomoufc wrote:
Brahma Bull wrote:Can't wait for Snakey to answer Kernow's question.

Yes I understand the panic, anger and frustration. It's all understandable. I don't think OxVox should be demanding or interfering in the managerial position, partly because you have a cross section of views throughout the membership. OxVox have got involved in this type of thing before, it doesn't go down well. But if that's what the membership demand, so be it.

You do know the OxVox committee, partof, have met Ashton and Eales officially once? Some of the committee are having another meeting in the coming few weeks for information.
It doesn't go well with who? The chairman? No, it probably doesn't. But if a chairman's pissed off because a democratically-elected fans groups has publicly expressed its opinion about something, I would venture to suggest that the chairman's at fault, rather than the supporters group. That a majority of OxVox members don't agree yet may be a fair point, but that could change very quickly.

I'll quote you from YF, because I'd rather converse on here - 'I think we're further from being sent to the wall than we have been for some significant time.' I respect this opinion, but what's the evidence? How much money per year in 'soft' debt accumulation to Mr Eales do we need to survive? How much money per year in 'soft' debt accumulation to Mr Eales do we need to get promoted? How much money per year in 'soft' debt accumulation to Mr Eales do we need to survive in league one? Add that all together - does Mr Eales have that kind of money? What are Mr. Eales's plans to get the club onto an even keel?
Commenting on the managerial position doesn't go down well with the OxVox membership simply because of the diverse range of views held on such a subject. To make some sort of official statement now would only serve the dual purpose of further alienating the club management and alienating a large chunk of the OxVox membership.

The point about debt though is more pertinent, and the questions you raise are valid. That said, Darryl Eales came out with an unequivocal statement that he would write off any debt incurred under his ownership. That makes it very difficult to ask questions about rising debt levels as they can simply be answered with "I'm going to write it all off". Personally speaking, if that is the case, I would like to see that happening on a regular (annual?) basis, i.e. at the end of each year, the debt is written off, rather than allowing it to build up over a number of years. (I'm no accountant so I'm not sure of the practicalities and legalities of doing that) Or investment in the club is done through equity funding rather than debt accrual.
Myles Francis
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by Myles Francis »

Kernow Yellow wrote:
Snake wrote:It would be helpful if OxVox stopped dicking around trying to curry favour with NewCo .
And your evidence for this is...?

I think Myles - who has recently (re?)joined the committee and attended meetings with NewCo having been very vocal in his concerns about the takeover might take exception to your usual sniping from afar.
No exception taken. I actually find it laughable, particularly coming from somebody who has always liked to portray themselves as being privy to more information than any other mere mortal fans.
Snake
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by Snake »

Myles Francis wrote:
Kernow Yellow wrote:
Snake wrote:It would be helpful if OxVox stopped dicking around trying to curry favour with NewCo .
And your evidence for this is...?

I think Myles - who has recently (re?)joined the committee and attended meetings with NewCo having been very vocal in his concerns about the takeover might take exception to your usual sniping from afar.
No exception taken. I actually find it laughable, particularly coming from somebody who has always liked to portray themselves as being privy to more information than any other mere mortal fans.
And your evidence for this is...? :lol:
Brahma Bull
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by Brahma Bull »

tomoufc wrote:
Brahma Bull wrote: OxVox have got involved in this type of thing before, it doesn't go down well. But if that's what the membership demand, so be it.
It doesn't go well with who? The chairman? No, it probably doesn't. But if a chairman's pissed off because a democratically-elected fans groups has publicly expressed its opinion about something, I would venture to suggest that the chairman's at fault, rather than the supporters group. That a majority of OxVox members don't agree yet may be a fair point, but that could change very quickly.

I'll quote you from YF, because I'd rather converse on here - 'I think we're further from being sent to the wall than we have been for some significant time.' I respect this opinion, but what's the evidence? How much money per year in 'soft' debt accumulation to Mr Eales do we need to survive? How much money per year in 'soft' debt accumulation to Mr Eales do we need to get promoted? How much money per year in 'soft' debt accumulation to Mr Eales do we need to survive in league one? Add that all together - does Mr Eales have that kind of money? What are Mr. Eales's plans to get the club onto an even keel?
Hi Tom. I didn't know if it was you posting on YF but thanks for clarifying.

Sorry as Myles has said (and beat me to it) I don't think it goes down well with the membership and wider fan-base...normally. The issue is you have 500 different views. It might surprise people but we don't agree on everything amongst the current committee let alone the Appleton debate. I have made my personal views known over the last 24 hours on YF on Appleton, I don't think he should be booted and I think he needs help - some L2 managerial help/assistant. I also think he needs to pretty quickly make decisions on what he can do recruitment wise NOW. Opportunities surely exist to terminate loans, bring in more adequate replacements with experience and move back to 4-4-2 - which we might well see this weekend!!!

Yet others I know want the bloke dismissed now.

But if we did a poll of members and it was 60% in favour of going to the Board with a 'We want Appleton Out' message, then we'd have 40% up in arms. I appreciate majorities and alike but we got battered for questioning Lenagan for not being quick enough in his last recruitment process and then we got criticised (by some) for forcing him into making a decision, the wrong decision in some's eyes.

As for my comment on being further from going to the wall than for some time I stand by that. Eales answered the OxVox questions at the recent Fans Forum quite emphatically. He won't laden us with debt were his words. I am not sure how much more we can do. You have to take him at his word and what I do know of Eales, is he is and has been honest and appears very very honourable. So I have more confidence that we won't be left as a basket case the day he does decide he has had enough.

I honestly don't get the clamour for AFC Oxford and a Phoenix club. I honestly believe that was more likely when we had Merry/Lenagan in charge than it is today. The new ownership have paid a sizeable sum for control and are funding the club and investing heavily.
GodalmingYellow
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by GodalmingYellow »

Hmm, I think there is some interpretation of Eales statements on debt going on, and using that as an opportunity to say the club is safe (financially).

The club is not safe. It is very far from safe.

There is no written contract for Eales to write off the money owed to him. There is no guarantee that he will either. When he leaves he will be under no legal obligation to do so, and it is always easy to find reasons and excuses to change your mind when you are owed millions. That said , I know of no reason not to trust his word, and I do so, for now at least. However, that is not the end of the story on the Eales debts. My understanding is that he said would write off the money owed to him "if he had to". That is something very different, as he might in the future sell the club with a new owner taking over the debts, and they would not be responsible for promises made by Eales.

So please, no one get into their heads that everything Eales spends is going to be a big freebie. It may well not be.

Further to that, there is the position of money owed to Lenagan. It was a soft debt whilst he was Chairman and majority shareholder. We can no longer be sure that the debt remains soft, and given the loan notes position, I suspect it is highly likely that a future repayment plan is in place for Lenagan's money.

So, please everyone be aware that the club might easily still be saddled with very large debts, which could also end up being secured against future stadium ownerships. The club is very far from being safe.

If Eales is prepared to swap his loans for shares, as seems possible, with the issue of the preference shares, then the club may become relatively safe.

On the issue of OxVox commenting on the managerial position. In principle there is no reason not to do so, because as a fans group OxVox is perfectly entitled, and arguably obliged to, express the opinion of the members. BB makes a good point that it would be necessary to get a significant majority agreeing a viewpoint on this to validate any public statement though.

That said, it should not prevent OxVox publicly expressing concern as to the present league position and requesting that the owners put a plan of action in place to ensure we do not get relegated, as relegation would be disastrous, and potentially terminal for the club.
Last edited by GodalmingYellow on Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tomoufc
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by tomoufc »

Thanks to MF and BB for their honest responses, and I hope they appreciate that I'm aiming for constructive criticism rather than anything more nasty.

I suppose I'm just more skeptical about the plans for the club - partly because I don't understand them on a financial level. As for trust... well that has to be earned. The owners' statement 'judge us on our record' seems to agree with that. The pertinent question question is 'when does that record first get analysed?'. Perhaps it is a bit early, but the longer we stay in or around the relegation zone, and the more the debts (or 'cash injections', if you prefer to look at it that way. Just remember if you prefer to look at that way you've chosen to take one pace back from reality) pile up that time frame gets shorter and shorter.
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot
tomoufc
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by tomoufc »

GodalmingYellow wrote:My understanding is that he said would write off the money owed to him "if he had to". That is something very different, as he might in the future sell the club with a new owner taking over the debts, and they would not be responsible for promises made by Eales.
Yes - and that would inflate the asking price for the club, leaving the new owner(s) with less money to spend on the club.
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot
Kernow Yellow
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by Kernow Yellow »

GodalmingYellow wrote:That said, it should not prevent OxVox publicly expressing concern as to the present league position and requesting that the owners put a plan of action in place to ensure we do not get relegated, as relegation would be disastrous, and potentially terminal for the club.
I really don't see what an OxVox statement on the subject would achieve. In this age of social media I'm sure Eales and co. are very aware of fans' discontent. And you know what? I don't think they want OUFC to go down either! They'll hear soon enough from the stands when/if Appleton outstays his welcome.

The rest of your post I completely agree with. OxVox should be continuing to try and ascertain what debt is owed to whom, and in due course to ensure that Eales is good to his word regarding his share of it. But that's a long-term process, and not something they need to be making statements about now I think. Especially so soon after the forum when all fans had the chance to ask questions if they so desired.
GodalmingYellow
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by GodalmingYellow »

Kernow Yellow wrote:
GodalmingYellow wrote:That said, it should not prevent OxVox publicly expressing concern as to the present league position and requesting that the owners put a plan of action in place to ensure we do not get relegated, as relegation would be disastrous, and potentially terminal for the club.
I really don't see what an OxVox statement on the subject would achieve. In this age of social media I'm sure Eales and co. are very aware of fans' discontent. And you know what? I don't think they want OUFC to go down either! They'll hear soon enough from the stands when/if Appleton outstays his welcome.

The rest of your post I completely agree with. OxVox should be continuing to try and ascertain what debt is owed to whom, and in due course to ensure that Eales is good to his word regarding his share of it. But that's a long-term process, and not something they need to be making statements about now I think. Especially so soon after the forum when all fans had the chance to ask questions if they so desired.
The purpose is to make clear that fans do not recognise that the owners are presently doing what is required to avoid a potential relegation situation and that the fans are dissatisfied with that position and that it needs to change.

You might find it hard to believe, but Eales not wanting the club to go down is not in itself enough to prevent it from happening.
Eric Pollard
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by Eric Pollard »

Kernow Yellow wrote:
GodalmingYellow wrote:That said, it should not prevent OxVox publicly expressing concern as to the present league position and requesting that the owners put a plan of action in place to ensure we do not get relegated, as relegation would be disastrous, and potentially terminal for the club.
I really don't see what an OxVox statement on the subject would achieve. In this age of social media I'm sure Eales and co. are very aware of fans' discontent. And you know what? I don't think they want OUFC to go down either! They'll hear soon enough from the stands when/if Appleton outstays his welcome.

The rest of your post I completely agree with. OxVox should be continuing to try and ascertain what debt is owed to whom, and in due course to ensure that Eales is good to his word regarding his share of it. But that's a long-term process, and not something they need to be making statements about now I think. Especially so soon after the forum when all fans had the chance to ask questions if they so desired.

Absolutely agree. I would imagine Mr Eales is pretty disappointed with his manager's performance thus far. A tired old 'voice of the fans' press release confirming the bleeding obvious is not helpful.
Kernow Yellow
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Re: I wasn’t there, Jerome.

Post by Kernow Yellow »

GodalmingYellow wrote:The purpose is to make clear that fans do not recognise that the owners are presently doing what is required to avoid a potential relegation situation and that the fans are dissatisfied with that position and that it needs to change.
So what do you think the owners should do to address that? And why do you think a significant majority of OxVox members would agree with you? And doesn't that anyway contradict your previously stated position that OxVox should not try to interfere with managerial decision-making?
GodalmingYellow wrote:You might find it hard to believe, but Eales not wanting the club to go down is not in itself enough to prevent it from happening.
Of course I don't find it hard to believe - do you think any football club wants to go down? But I also don't think that OxVox making a statement expressing their (our) dissatisfaction with the current league position would make relegation any less likely. It would simply be a statement of the obvious.
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