Chelten-numb

[GodalmingYellow]

Yes unjustified excuses Ty.

There is no reason to believe that we were hit any harder than anyone else on injuries last season.

Constable wasn't out for long periods through injury, it was because Wilder refused to play him. Similarly Leven played most of the season (38 games started and 4 as sub). In fact only 4 players appeared more than Leven last season.

Even if Wilder has the highest win % other than Jim Smith, the opposition and relative resources have to be taken into account.

As I said earlier, you conveniently ignore all the negatives.

And I didn't say I wanted to get rid of Wilder either.

What I have said is that I think Wilder has taken us as far as he can, that he doesn't learn from his mistakes, that he has plenty of resources to achieve the stated aims of IL,and that if we are not close to the top and looking likely automatic promotion candidates well before Christmas then we may have to look elsewhere.

[Myles Francis]

Since then we've lost two games in a row, that is not enough to change the long term view of Wilder being a manager who is improving us every season. Indeed given his fantastic record with us it is the time to cut him a bit of slack and get behind him.

The big question mark is over the &quotimproving us every season&quot bit. Yes, last season we managed to turn five of the previous season's defeats into draws - we didn't win any more games. And we scored a whole one goal more. The last ten games of the previous two seasons have netted 11 and 10 points - simply woeful for a team with aspirations of promotion.

Wilder's win record in the league for the past two seasons is 34 from 92 games. 36.9%. Hardly stunning. And 1.42 points per game. Again, not great.

The noises coming from the club pre-season were that we should be in the running for promotion. 9 points from 21 is far from that. Yes, Wilder has earnt the &quotright&quot to be given some slack. But he's already used up a fair chunk of that in dismissing the capitulation at the end of last season, and the start to this hardly looks like he's learnt how to improve things further.

[SmileyMan]

Since then we've lost two games in a row, that is not enough to change the long term view of Wilder being a manager who is improving us every season. Indeed given his fantastic record with us it is the time to cut him a bit of slack and get behind him.

The big question mark is over the &quotimproving us every season&quot bit. Yes, last season we managed to turn five of the previous season's defeats into draws - we didn't win any more games. And we scored a whole one goal more. The last ten games of the previous two seasons have netted 11 and 10 points - simply woeful for a team with aspirations of promotion.

Wilder's win record in the league for the past two seasons is 34 from 92 games. 36.9%. Hardly stunning. And 1.42 points per game. Again, not great.

The noises coming from the club pre-season were that we should be in the running for promotion. 9 points from 21 is far from that. Yes, Wilder has earnt the &quotright&quot to be given some slack. But he's already used up a fair chunk of that in dismissing the capitulation at the end of last season, and the start to this hardly looks like he's learnt how to improve things further.

That's the hammer hitting the nail squarely on the head. Excellent post.

[Kernow Yellow]

To be fair, Ty, I don't think anyone on this thread has said we should get rid of Wilder now. I was actually expecting a much more negative atmosphere on Tuesday night, but was pleasantly surprised by the supportive (if subdued) nature of the away support. I would say most OUFC fans are getting behind CW in the hope he'll turn it around, and it would certainly be madness to sack him on the back of our showing at Cheltenham.

However, that doesn't mean the manager should be immune from criticism, especially when we've lost 4 in a row. Things certainly can't go on like this indefinitely when the club's stated ambition is for automatic promotion, and I don't think IL will tolerate too many more defeats. Let's just hope our form improves quickly and such debates become immaterial for a while yet.

I would also add my voice to those saying that last season wasn't in any meaningful way an improvement on the previous one. However, the main argument in favour of CW is that stability is generally a good thing in football management, and what we have now is still considerably better than what it was under Rix/Talbot/Wright et al.

[ty cobb]

Well my post was in response to two views of &quottime for a change.&quot GY you have been banging on for a while now that CW has taken us as far as he can - if that is true then why keep him any longer?

If the view of the majority is to give him more time, then good I agree.

I also agree that he's not beyond critiscm, being slow to learn from previous mistakes is an obvious one. I just don't know where this groundswell of &quottime for a change&quot is coming from, usually it takes most Oxford fans quite sometime before we turn on a manager and that is usually when a manager has shown no signs of being a success for us and we've had a poor run.

Wilder has demonstrated he has qualities - turned a conference midtable team into a promotion winning team and is able to get the players motivated and set up right tactically for big games, Wembley, play off semis, Slumdon 3 games in a row now........

What I think he needs to be better at is letting the players off the leash more - the stuff we saw in his first season was a throwing caution to the wind approach as we had to win every game. Too often 4-3-3 is actually 4-5-1 and people know what to expect from us now.

Still don't think we're at crisis point yet it's only mid september!

[GodalmingYellow]

Well my post was in response to two views of &quottime for a change.&quot GY you have been banging on for a while now that CW has taken us as far as he can - if that is true then why keep him any longer?

If the view of the majority is to give him more time, then good I agree.

I also agree that he's not beyond critiscm, being slow to learn from previous mistakes is an obvious one. I just don't know where this groundswell of &quottime for a change&quot is coming from, usually it takes most Oxford fans quite sometime before we turn on a manager and that is usually when a manager has shown no signs of being a success for us and we've had a poor run.

Wilder has demonstrated he has qualities - turned a conference midtable team into a promotion winning team and is able to get the players motivated and set up right tactically for big games, Wembley, play off semis, Slumdon 3 games in a row now........

What I think he needs to be better at is letting the players off the leash more - the stuff we saw in his first season was a throwing caution to the wind approach as we had to win every game. Too often 4-3-3 is actually 4-5-1 and people know what to expect from us now.

Still don't think we're at crisis point yet it's only mid september!

I've said several times that I think Wilder needs to be given until end November at least.

Just because I think Wilder has taken us as far as he can, doesn't mean I want to get rid of him. That's an incorrect assertion on your part. I might well turn out to be wrong in thinking Wilder has taken us as far as he can, and in my view because of his previous record, he has earned the right to significantly longer than 6 or 7 matches. I hope I am wrong and Wilder does turn it around and he should be given a reasonable period to attempt to do so.

If we get to the end of November and are not by then looking like realistic automatic promotion candidates, then I'll probably slip a bit further towards considering alternatives.

But cutting him slack and giving due respect for previous efforts, does not mean he'll be above criticism, or that my view of his potential limit has changed.

[Peterorange]

Still don't think we're at crisis point yet it's only mid september!

...and we are 2 points off the play-offs. I love the way this forum comes alive when Oxford do badly. Sums up Oxford fans.

[Radley Rambler]

Still don't think we're at crisis point yet it's only mid september!

...and we are 2 points off the play-offs. I love the way this forum comes alive when Oxford do badly. Sums up Oxford fans.

True but in reality you could say 'sums up all football fans'. Same concept as bad news sells papers rather than good news and people on average will tell 8 people about a bad experience and only 1 person about a good experience.

Basically homo sapiens like a good old whinge.

[SmileyMan]

It's true. Everything else in my life is peaches and cream, so I follow Oxford for karmic balance!

[Myles Francis]

...and we are 2 points off the play-offs.

And 7 points off the automatic promotion spots which was the implicit target given by the club.