Points deduction

[Snake]

We could even justifiably claim that it would be unfair to hear our appeal until after the internal review of the Conference procedures is complete. Does that make any sense?

Yes - if the club actually believe that our transgression was solely caused by a failure of Conference procedures, that would make plenty of sense. If, however, that is not the case, then it would seem to be clutching at
straws.

Thank you for your challenging input in this thread. It’s good to get both sides of the argument discussed. However, I think this is where we have to agree to differ and sit back and await Kelvin’s decision tomorrow.

My take on this is that we were in the wrong but the punishment should fit the first and only transgression (i.e. a three point penalty) and that any further points deductions are not our fault, because from that time onwards it was the Conference’s administrative procedures that failed to pick up the fact each time Hutch played another game.

No one is perfect, I know I’m not. And neither is Mick Brown or the person in the Conference who’s job it is to open the post and file the mail properly and check the registration forms. So instead I’m figuratively going to poke my finger in the eye of the person or persons in the Conference who agreed to put into place a policy of only randomly checking player registrations when instead they could have implemented a less labour intensive, quicker, and more accurate electronic system to make things easier for all parties.

This is not the first time the Conference team has been caught with its trousers down, but if nothing else this fiasco will mean that if we are still stuck in this horrible League next year then it will be better run.

[Baboo]

Thanks for the link Snake. I've just made my first visit to the NLP. Didn't take me long to find this.



Language!

WOKING showed double standards over the incident when Crawley manager Steve Evans was sent to the stands.

The Woking chairman has written to the FA about Evans and his language.

But when Evans got to the top of the stand someone from the Woking board area or just behind shouted out “We don’t want f*****g scum like you up here?

[boris]

I heard today, from a usually reasonable source, that the club were a couple of days late with the registration papers and that the first 3 points would not be recoverable in any appeal.

No doubt the truth will out on Monday.

My information, from a usually reasonable source, is that your information is wrong. I've heard that the club handed over the registration documents in person to the Conf administration, but the papers were not processed. The problem, of course, is proving this.

[theox]

I heard today, from a usually reasonable source, that the club were a couple of days late with the registration papers and that the first 3 points would not be recoverable in any appeal.

No doubt the truth will out on Monday.

My information, from a usually reasonable source, is that your information is wrong. I've heard that the club handed over the registration documents in person to the Conf administration, but the papers were not processed. The problem, of course, is proving this.

Even if this is the case, I guess we would still have to take a 3 point penalty on the basis that we didn't check the registration (if this is the case) but the Conference should have picked it up after one game if their checking procedures were the same as every other league in this country?

[A-Ro]

I heard today, from a usually reasonable source, that the club were a couple of days late with the registration papers and that the first 3 points would not be recoverable in any appeal.

No doubt the truth will out on Monday.

My information, from a usually reasonable source, is that your information is wrong. I've heard that the club handed over the registration documents in person to the Conf administration, but the papers were not processed. The problem, of course, is proving this.

Ye Gods, that makes my Grenoble Road spookily accurate.

[A-Ro]

As I've posted on the other thread Bognor have decided not to appeal

[ty cobb]

I heard today, from a usually reasonable source, that the club were a couple of days late with the registration papers and that the first 3 points would not be recoverable in any appeal.

No doubt the truth will out on Monday.

My information, from a usually reasonable source, is that your information is wrong. I've heard that the club handed over the registration documents in person to the Conf administration, but the papers were not processed. The problem, of course, is proving this.

Even if this is the case, I guess we would still have to take a 3 point penalty on the basis that we didn't check the registration (if this is the case) but the Conference should have picked it up after one game if their checking procedures were the same as every other league in this country?

Yes we did check it - we handed it over and said there you are thats EH registration ok? To which the answer was surely yes, thank you.

There is no difference to that then calling up and asking if they've recieved it - how would you prove that?

The whole thing is a farce, we should appeal the points could be vital at the end of the season - have you seen how many games in hand clubs have??

[theox]

My information, from a usually reasonable source, is that your information is wrong. I've heard that the club handed over the registration documents in person to the Conf administration, but the papers were not processed. The problem, of course, is proving this.

Even if this is the case, I guess we would still have to take a 3 point penalty on the basis that we didn't check the registration (if this is the case) but the Conference should have picked it up after one game if their checking procedures were the same as every other league in this country?

Yes we did check it - we handed it over and said there you are thats EH registration ok? To which the answer was surely yes, thank you.

There is no difference to that then calling up and asking if they've recieved it - how would you prove that?

The whole thing is a farce, we should appeal the points could be vital at the end of the season - have you seen how many games in hand clubs have??

Checking its been received and checking its been actioned are two entirely seperate things unfortunately. It depends where the ultimate responsibility for this lies according to rules and whether the FA see these rules as reasonable.

On a slightly seperate point, if we do appeal, who is gonna front the cash for the legal fees? As a lawyer, I know we're not cheap and I have a lot of clients who give up on Litigation on economical grounds even if they have an decent case. I would doubt very much that the rules allow us to recover our costs from the Conference even if we are successful.

[GodalmingYellow]

I heard today, from a usually reasonable source, that the club were a couple of days late with the registration papers and that the first 3 points would not be recoverable in any appeal.

No doubt the truth will out on Monday.

My information, from a usually reasonable source, is that your information is wrong. I've heard that the club handed over the registration documents in person to the Conf administration, but the papers were not processed. The problem, of course, is proving this.

The club have said they will give us their side of the story, if they don't appeal, later on today.

I will be very interested to read if my source turns out to be wrong, but of course your information and mine are not mutually exclusive, as the documents could have been handed over in person, 2 days late.

[GodalmingYellow]

Even if this is the case, I guess we would still have to take a 3 point penalty on the basis that we didn't check the registration (if this is the case) but the Conference should have picked it up after one game if their checking procedures were the same as every other league in this country?

Yes we did check it - we handed it over and said there you are thats EH registration ok? To which the answer was surely yes, thank you.

There is no difference to that then calling up and asking if they've recieved it - how would you prove that?

The whole thing is a farce, we should appeal the points could be vital at the end of the season - have you seen how many games in hand clubs have??

Checking its been received and checking its been actioned are two entirely seperate things unfortunately. It depends where the ultimate responsibility for this lies according to rules and whether the FA see these rules as reasonable.

On a slightly seperate point, if we do appeal, who is gonna front the cash for the legal fees? As a lawyer, I know we're not cheap and I have a lot of clients who give up on Litigation on economical grounds even if they have an decent case. I would doubt very much that the rules allow us to recover our costs from the Conference even if we are successful.

That is of course a very sad and sickening indictment of this country's judicial system. You can effectively buy justice, or even injustice. But that's an argument for another day.

[ty cobb]

Even if this is the case, I guess we would still have to take a 3 point penalty on the basis that we didn't check the registration (if this is the case) but the Conference should have picked it up after one game if their checking procedures were the same as every other league in this country?

Yes we did check it - we handed it over and said there you are thats EH registration ok? To which the answer was surely yes, thank you.

There is no difference to that then calling up and asking if they've recieved it - how would you prove that?

The whole thing is a farce, we should appeal the points could be vital at the end of the season - have you seen how many games in hand clubs have??

Checking its been received and checking its been actioned are two entirely seperate things unfortunately. It depends where the ultimate responsibility for this lies according to rules and whether the FA see these rules as reasonable.

On a slightly seperate point, if we do appeal, who is gonna front the cash for the legal fees? As a lawyer, I know we're not cheap and I have a lot of clients who give up on Litigation on economical grounds even if they have an decent case. I would doubt very much that the rules allow us to recover our costs from the Conference even if we are successful.

This is the type of stuff that gives you guys a bad name, if you know it has been recieved then surely it is reasonable to assume it's been actioned. It seems a moot point that if you know someone has recieved something it is quite reasonble to assume they will have actioned it. We have met our responsibility in ensuring the correct documentation was there in time - if it wasn't processed that is the Conferences fault.

I say appeal if we handed it over in time, and not to if we didn't. It would seem to me that if we personally handed it over it would suggest we were a little late.

[A-Ro]

Another possible outcome I heard being discussed at Crawley was that there is a possibility that all clubs will get their points deduction suspended for a year because of the problems at the BSP.

[Roo]

Does anybody know what time the announcement will be made re appealing?

[theox]

Yes we did check it - we handed it over and said there you are thats EH registration ok? To which the answer was surely yes, thank you.

There is no difference to that then calling up and asking if they've recieved it - how would you prove that?

The whole thing is a farce, we should appeal the points could be vital at the end of the season - have you seen how many games in hand clubs have??

Checking its been received and checking its been actioned are two entirely seperate things unfortunately. It depends where the ultimate responsibility for this lies according to rules and whether the FA see these rules as reasonable.

On a slightly seperate point, if we do appeal, who is gonna front the cash for the legal fees? As a lawyer, I know we're not cheap and I have a lot of clients who give up on Litigation on economical grounds even if they have an decent case. I would doubt very much that the rules allow us to recover our costs from the Conference even if we are successful.

This is the type of stuff that gives you guys a bad name, if you know it has been recieved then surely it is reasonable to assume it's been actioned. It seems a moot point that if you know someone has recieved something it is quite reasonble to assume they will have actioned it. We have met our responsibility in ensuring the correct documentation was there in time - if it wasn't processed that is the Conferences fault.

I say appeal if we handed it over in time, and not to if we didn't. It would seem to me that if we personally handed it over it would suggest we were a little late.

But if the rules state that we must ensure that the registration is complete then we haven't met our responsibilty simply by ensuring the form got there in time (if we even did this). Reasonableness doesn't usually come into it when an agreement is made between two businesses. If you sign up to something as a business then you're generally bound by it.

However, this is all just guesswork until we know the actual facts but, as you state, if someone actually personally handed over the paperwork then it does suggest we were late.

[Hog]

I don't see why handing it over personally equates to 'must have been late'. Perhaps MB was attending a BSP meeting and took it along with him to make sure it got there?