English Football and other Nations in the UK

[Isaac]

I was pleased too, I might even go and watch some of the tournament now. There's plenty of what were england fans who feel the same way, apart from anything else it's a very unlikeable team at the moment, but my lack of interest is more long term.

There's always this period of handwringing and introspection when the English team fails, demands for youth, the dreaded &quotpride and passion&quot (for instance Gerrards display had plenty of headless pride and passion last night, if he'd slowed down a bit he might have played with a semblance of footballing intelligence) but very rarely will anything change other than the cosmetic new manager appointment.

I think this is one of the more interesting contributions to the debate, which is surprising when you see who wrote it....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 910642.ece

[Ascension Ox]

Its our national team ffs.

who are you speaking for here?

i couldn't say i have no interest - i sometimes watch england play. but i will enjoy euro 2008 just as much without england there - if not more, as we might actually get some vaguely objective coverage of the tournament.

You say you have 'some interest' in the national team. Well done you.

If others can't get worked up about our national team, however abject the organisation, however greedy and uninspired the players, however loathsome and vituperative some of the supporters are,, however boneheaded the FA administration and strategic vision is, then I feel sorry for them.

A strong, well supported national team is key to our national game. And if people 'opt' out of supporting England we're on our way to hell in a hand cart.

[DLT]

Of course I am delighted. Won't have all those idiots with st george flags driving around the streets for a start. and we won't have 'English hooliganism' as the headline for day after day. If the shit does kick off this time the English won't be blamed.

We are not good enough to win. We finished on equal points to Israel.

The tournament will be all the better for having the best footballing sides playing in it.

As for Joe Cole V Matt Taylor, I would agree that Cole is a better player, everywhere but on the left hand side of a midfield four.

[theox]

A strong, well supported national team is key to our national game. And if people 'opt' out of supporting England we're on our way to hell in a hand cart.

Congratulations. I'm sure all of those who 'support' the national team from their armchairs/pubs made the world of difference in last night's defeat!!

As with any team, the only supporters who have a vague chance of influencing the outcome are the ones at the game and no matter how many of us 'opt-out' the grounds will still be packed with thousands of sheep with their cameras out ready to get a picture of Beckham/Lampard/other english golden boy.

And yes I will continue to 'opt-out' until Gary Lineker becomes Prime Minister.

Oh and we've been on our way to hell since football sold its soul to Sky.

[Mooro]

Home internationals would be fun, perhaps with the Republic involved as well. Perhaps we could invite Australia &amp Jamaica too (as they often play 'home' friendlies here) and one other (the US?) and make it a proper tournament.

I’m old fashioned enough to believe that the England manager should be English no matter what, just as the manager of every major international team should be from that country, but I know that is an increasingly minority view and that my case is not helped by the leading candidate at the bookies being a TV pundit who has never managed a team in his life.

My view on quotas in the Premier League is not quite as regimented as some suggest, in that I would say that each team should field say 5/6 players from the home nations (incl Eire) rather than just limit it to England. Players from these countries have always been a feature in the English top flight, so I see no reason why that should not continue. This would then mean 5/6 places for continental players, which is surely enough to ensure no restriction on the players people want to watch..

I wanted us to win last night and get through, not least to give Mclaren a little longer to show whether he's learning his way into the role or not. He is not the problem, but the FA know that sacking him is the simplest way of deflecting the issue, because attention now switches to endless discussions of potential candidates rather than a concerted effort to look deeper into the problem. There'll be a brief attempt by certain senior correspondents, but that will soon be overtaken by the frenzy when the Special One mumbles something....

Here's a thought - how about Harry and Jim re-united at the helm....?

[Isaac]

The foreign players thing is a red herring in my opinion too. The reason why there are very few English players in the top levels of the premier league is because there's very few English players good enough to play at that level. If a player really thinks his opportunites are limited by others there's nothing preventing him going abroad to play top level/champions league football in another country (presuming he's good enough). A strong, domestic based national league does not mean a strong national side - for example, I think all of 2 of Croatia's players play for a Croatian league side.

[boris]

If others can't get worked up about our national team, however abject the organisation, however greedy and uninspired the players, however loathsome and vituperative some of the supporters are,, however boneheaded the FA administration and strategic vision is, then I feel sorry for them.

A strong, well supported national team is key to our national game. And if people 'opt' out of supporting England we're on our way to hell in a hand cart.

We're not all slavering nationalists here, AO. I have no interest in England other than enjoying having a fall guy to follow. Now they're eliminated I'll enjoy the tournament just as much, but will be spared the hysteria that always surrounds England at a major tournament (until they're inevitably eliminated in the quarter finals on penalties). For what it's worth, I'll probably be supporting Russia at Euro 08, even though they'll probably stink out the tournament almost as much as England would have.

As Dan, DLT, and others have hinted, this could be a glorious opportunity for the FA to do a roots and branch change to the way football is coached and run in this country, to bring them into line with the other, more progressive, European nations. Unfortunately, with the myopic idiots in charge, they will probably think that they've done their bit by being brave and bold enough to sack McClaren, and will now sit back while nothing beneath changes, so that England can have the same miserable failure for the 2010 WC and beyond. I care, because I've seen my son getting a lot of his natural talent coached out of him, and his instinctive enjoyment of playing the game slowly evaporate, simply because he's been taught that winning is more important than having fun, and that effort and &quotpassion&quot is more important than skill and ball control. It's very depressing.

[Ascension Ox]

A strong, well supported national team is key to our national game. And if people 'opt' out of supporting England we're on our way to hell in a hand cart.

Congratulations. I'm sure all of those who 'support' the national team from their armchairs/pubs made the world of difference in last night's defeat!!

As with any team, the only supporters who have a vague chance of influencing the outcome are the ones at the game and no matter how many of us 'opt-out' the grounds will still be packed with thousands of sheep with their cameras out ready to get a picture of Beckham/Lampard/other english golden boy.

And yes I will continue to 'opt-out' until Gary Lineker becomes Prime Minister.

Oh and we've been on our way to hell since football sold its soul to Sky.

I go to watch England from time to time. So do many hundreds of thousands. That kind of' shrug shoulders what can we' do approach bugs me.

Your attitude is negative and depressing.

[theox]

A strong, well supported national team is key to our national game. And if people 'opt' out of supporting England we're on our way to hell in a hand cart.

Congratulations. I'm sure all of those who 'support' the national team from their armchairs/pubs made the world of difference in last night's defeat!!

As with any team, the only supporters who have a vague chance of influencing the outcome are the ones at the game and no matter how many of us 'opt-out' the grounds will still be packed with thousands of sheep with their cameras out ready to get a picture of Beckham/Lampard/other english golden boy.

And yes I will continue to 'opt-out' until Gary Lineker becomes Prime Minister.

Oh and we've been on our way to hell since football sold its soul to Sky.

I go to watch England from time to time. So do many hundreds of thousands. That kind of' shrug shoulders what can we' do approach bugs me.

Your attitude is negative and depressing.



If football's so bad why are you stilll here may I ask

I know thousands of people support England's football team. I think you'll find that's what i said?!

What is negative about not supporting a team just because you think I should? I choose not to support England much like I choose not to support Man Utd or Slumdon.

I'm here because this is an Oxford United forum and I am Oxford til I die. I also love the game of football and will heartily enjoy next year's Euro Champs. I just wont be crying into my pint that Rooney et al aren't there.

Anything else?

[Ascension Ox]

If others can't get worked up about our national team, however abject the organisation, however greedy and uninspired the players, however loathsome and vituperative some of the supporters are,, however boneheaded the FA administration and strategic vision is, then I feel sorry for them.

A strong, well supported national team is key to our national game. And if people 'opt' out of supporting England we're on our way to hell in a hand cart.

We're not all slavering nationalists here, AO. I have no interest in England other than enjoying having a fall guy to follow. Now they're eliminated I'll enjoy the tournament just as much, but will be spared the hysteria that always surrounds England at a major tournament (until they're inevitably eliminated in the quarter finals on penalties). For what it's worth, I'll probably be supporting Russia at Euro 08, even though they'll probably stink out the tournament almost as much as England would have.

As Dan, DLT, and others have hinted, this could be a glorious opportunity for the FA to do a roots and branch change to the way football is coached and run in this country, to bring them into line with the other, more progressive, European nations. Unfortunately, with the myopic idiots in charge, they will probably think that they've done their bit by being brave and bold enough to sack McClaren, and will now sit back while nothing beneath changes, so that England can have the same miserable failure for the 2010 WC and beyond. I care, because I've seen my son getting a lot of his natural talent coached out of him, and his instinctive enjoyment of playing the game slowly evaporate, simply because he's been taught that winning is more important than having fun, and that effort and &quotpassion&quot is more important than skill and ball control. It's very depressing.

I'm no 'slavering nationalist' Martin. I resent that insinuation. I in turn resent and cannot believe that intelligent people are quote' delighted' to see us fail.

I don't fall for all this 'root and branch' stuff either. There are big big problems in our system that need to be improved post haste. We should never again appoint such a hopeless inadequate as our national coach for starters.

However, there are still fine young players coming through, many of them in the successful U21 setup. Time to introduce them.

[Ascension Ox]

Congratulations. I'm sure all of those who 'support' the national team from their armchairs/pubs made the world of difference in last night's defeat!!

As with any team, the only supporters who have a vague chance of influencing the outcome are the ones at the game and no matter how many of us 'opt-out' the grounds will still be packed with thousands of sheep with their cameras out ready to get a picture of Beckham/Lampard/other english golden boy.

And yes I will continue to 'opt-out' until Gary Lineker becomes Prime Minister.

Oh and we've been on our way to hell since football sold its soul to Sky.

I go to watch England from time to time. So do many hundreds of thousands. That kind of' shrug shoulders what can we' do approach bugs me.

Your attitude is negative and depressing.



If football's so bad why are you stilll here may I ask

I know thousands of people support England's football team. I think you'll find that's what i said?!

What is negative about not supporting a team just because you think I should? I choose not to support England much like I choose not to support Man Utd or Slumdon.

I'm here because this is an Oxford United forum and I am Oxford til I die. I also love the game of football and will heartily enjoy next year's Euro Champs. I just wont be crying into my pint that Rooney et al aren't there.

Anything else?

Yes, why do you not support your national team in what is our national sport ? Sorry, but if everyone shared you attitude after last night's debacle we're finished as a major football nation.

Anything else?

[theox]

I go to watch England from time to time. So do many hundreds of thousands. That kind of' shrug shoulders what can we' do approach bugs me.

Your attitude is negative and depressing.



If football's so bad why are you stilll here may I ask

I know thousands of people support England's football team. I think you'll find that's what i said?!

What is negative about not supporting a team just because you think I should? I choose not to support England much like I choose not to support Man Utd or Slumdon.

I'm here because this is an Oxford United forum and I am Oxford til I die. I also love the game of football and will heartily enjoy next year's Euro Champs. I just wont be crying into my pint that Rooney et al aren't there.

Anything else?

Yes, why do you not support your national team in what is our national sport ? Sorry, but if everyone shared you attitude after last night's debacle we're finished as a major football nation.

Anything else?

I, and others, on this post have already detailed reasons for not supporting this team.

Further, I have already pointing out that I would imagine we are in the minority for not doing so.

Also, explain exactly how a few less people screaming at Beckham from our armchairs means that England are finished?

Perhaps we're finished as a major football nation because the grassroots have been all but abandoned in favour of providing the here and now players with a lifestyle beyond their wildest dreams? Perhaps it's years of mismanagement at all levels of the FA? Maybe its the vomit-inducing press coverage everytime the team play? Perhaps its the 'you must support england or youre a twat' attitude of the people who fill the pubs everytime there is a game?

Maybe you should focus your excitement not on those who feel the apathy but on the real cause of it.

[YF Dan]

We are finished as a football nation if we let things stay as they are.

Tell us AO, were England just unlucky?

Was it all McClaren's fault?

Were they in a tough group?

Would the golden generation have gone to win Euro 2008 were it not for those pesky Croats?

English football stinks. The Premiership is rotten to the core. The FA are a bunch of powerless idiots who are to scared to upset the big boys. The players are spoilt prima-donnas who can't do the basics, but yet our paid upto £150k a week. Blindly supporting them &quotbecause you have to&quot adds to the problem, not solves it.

[Isaac]

Football is supposed to be a leisure activity, is there a suggestion that all English people have a responsibility to support the england team whatever?

I've watched England live on various occasions, apart from the games often being poor I also think it also brings out the worst in the supporters - the songs are often offensive, racist and/or xenophobic. It's rarely been a pleasurable experience and I'm certainly not predisposed to continue supporting them out of some strange sense of nationalism.

[boris]

Sorry Tim, I didn't mean to imply you were a BNP or National Front supporter. But I don't buy this &quotI'm from England therefore it behoves me to support England&quot argument. I have no emotional attachment to England as my national team - they are managed and represented by people with whom I cannot identify in any way. At least being an Oxford supporter enables me to watch players whose lifestyles and salaries are probably not that dissimilar to my own, and who are more likely to live within an easy commute of Oxford.

I also fail to see any evidence for the argument that a strong national side begets a strong domestic league. Holland had a very strong national side throughout the 1970s, but the Dutch league, with the exception of two very strong clubs, was very weak. Similarly, the Mexico national side is not matched by success accrued by club sides in continental competition. If anything, I think it's more likely to be the reverse: a strong domestic set up can lead to national success (Italy and Germany, and to an extent France) are evidence of this.

Anyway, England haven't been a real world power in international football since about the early 1950s, and despite what you say about the under-21 side, there is little evidence that this is about to change, and I would say that's because of complacency at the top and a failure to recognise that the attributes of top-class players are not being taught at youth level or beyond. It's all about energy, commitment, passion, pride, and stamina, and nothing at all about passing, ball control, basic skills, balance, and vision. Until that changes England will continue to be also-rans in international competition.